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LARRY
KING, HOST
It is no secret, as welcome you to tonight's edition
of LARRY KING LIVE, that I am a major horse racing
fan. Not only do I love this sport, I think the jockeys
who participated in it are the world's greatest athletes.
And the Institute for the Study of Sports backed that
up some years ago when they studied athletes, and
jockeys came in first.
Well,
next Saturday at Santa Anita in Arcadia, California,
they're going to run the annual Breeder's Cup, the
best day in horse racing, one of the best days in
sports. To discuss it, here in Los Angeles, Merv Griffin,
the entertainer and businessman. He is celebrity host
for the 20th anniversary Breeder's Cup, the World
Thoroughbred Track Championships and Santa Anita.
He raises and trains race horses in La Quinta.
Chris
McCaron, member of the Racing Hal! l of Fame, vice
president and general manager of Santa Anita Park,
was a consultant for the terrific film, "Seabiscuit."
Also played the role of War Admiral's jockey Charlie
Cursinger (ph) in that movie. And Gary Stevens, who
has quickly become a kind of horse racing legend just
by being an actor. He's inducted into the Racing Hall
of Fame as well. He plays jockey George Woolf in "Seabiscuit"
and was one of "People" magazine's 50 most
beautiful people for 2003.
How
do you feel about that, by the way?
GARY
STEVENS, JOCKEY, ACTED IN "SEABISCUIT":
I can't figure it out.
KING:
Did you get a little kidding at the track?
STEVENS:
Just a little bit. Still getting a lot of kidding
about it, yeah.
KING:
All right, Merv, you're a celebrity host. That entails
what?
MERV
GRIFFIN, CELEBRITY HOST OF THE BREEDERS' CUP: Nothing.
KING:
You don't have to do anything.
GRIFFIN:
Just stand there, smile at them. It's the super bowl
of racing.
KING:
And you're throwing a big party?
GRIFFIN:
It's the greatest day -- yup -- the greatest day in
racing, all the greatest thoroughbreds from around
the world.
KING:
Seven races, right?
CHRIS
MCCARON, VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL MANAGER, SANTA
ANITA PARK: Eight.
KING:
Eight.
GRIFFIN:
And purses for the first six are a million each, then
seven is two million, and the eighth race is four
million.
MCCARON:
Actually, a couple of races have been bumped up. There
are now, I think, four that are a million, there's
a couple that are a million and a half, then there's
the $2 million distaff, and the $2 million turf.
KING:
Four $2 million races?
MCCARON:
That's correct. And the $4 million classic.
GRIFFIN:
Isn't this why you got involved?
MCCARON:
I think so, absolutely.
KING:
You put up the extra money?
GRIFFIN:
I put up anything that they want.
KING:
And horses come from all o! ver the world?
MCCARON:
That's right. And jockeys and trainers and owners
from all over the world.
KING:
Different tracks are selected every year?
MCCARON:
That's correct.
KING:
This is only 20 years that this started. I remember
the first Breeder's Cup.
STEVENS:
'84, yeah, 1984 I rode my first one.
KING:
It was conceived by who? Was it Johnny Naverd (ph)
that came up with this idea, the trainer? MCCARON:
John Naverd was one of the forces behind it. I think
it was the brain child of Mr. John Gaines (ph).
KING:
To separate it from the derby and all the rest of
the sport by having all these horses come.
MCCARON:
Correct. He felt that the industry needed an older
horse division championship, and that sort of spawned
off into rest of the segments, all the other categories,
2-year-old colts and 2-year- old fillies, and it's
just gone over unbelievably well.
KING:
When you first heard of it, Merv, did you like the
idea?
GRIFFIN:
Oh, I loved it, loved the idea, yeah, absolutely.
KING:
Because there was some naysayers.
GRIFFIN:
Oh, there was, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's -- I mean
I'm sitting next to two of the greatest riders who
ever lived. I mean, these guys are, as you said, they
are.
KING:
The best.
GRIFFIN:
A guy like -- the only person I know that ever rode
full out that wasn't a jockey was Dick Van Patton,
who we all know very well, who loved the horses.
KING:
He bets them.
GRIFFIN:
He bets them. He said it was the most terrifying thing
that had ever happened to him in his life.
KING:
But you told me before we started that it was the
most fun you've ever had was riding horses.
MCCARON:
Oh, it is a thrill. A thoroughbred race horse goes
from zero to 40 in three strides, which his only about
20 feet. The average length of a regular stride is
about 21, 25 feet, but the first three strides are
very quick. It's a tremendou! s feeling of power,
and it's awesome.
KING:
You enjoy it every time out?
STEVENS:
I stepped out of it in '99; I've retired. I couldn't
handle it. Couldn't handle retirement. I wasn't prepared
for it. I got back into it.
KING:
And even with injuries, you had one serious this summer?
STEVENS:
Had a horrible one seven weeks ago, yeah. Collapsed
lung, really nasty fall. I came back and rode the
horse two weeks ago Storming Home, won on him, and
he's one of the favorites, actually, for the Breeder's
Cup Turf.
KING:
You won that race, but it got taken down ...
STEVENS:
Right.
KING:
... because they couldn't decide where it occurred,
right, finish line or before or after the finish line.
STEVENS:
They made the right call.
KING:
They did?
STEVENS:
Yeah. It happened, actually, three or four strides
prior to the finish. The jocks behind me, they were
taking hold of their horses to try and keep from running
over the top of me! , and unfortunately, I got ran
over anyway.
GRIFFIN:
Was this in (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
STEVENS:
No, this was Chicago.
KING:
Chicago.
STEVENS:
Arlington.
KING:
Arlington.
STEVENS:
Yeah, I was in front and won the race but was disqualified.
KING:
Yet it's still fun to you.
STEVENS:
Yeah. I mean, I've got to be honest with you. I'm
40 years old right now. I've had my share of injuries,
and this is the closest to death that I've ever come.
And the main reason I came back is to ride this horse
in the Breeder's Cup. He's very, very special, but
to be honest with you, the burn has gone a little
bit since this accident. It's making me think about
my future a little bit.
KING:
Affected the way you ride?
STEVENS:
No, not at all. I mean, I came back in three weeks.
And you still see me getting through on the inside.
KING:
Still going through the hole on the inside.
STEVENS.
Absolutely. I mean, if I had that fear! , then you
don't go out there. But I'm not ready to give up on
life right now.
KING:
Merv, you're ...
GRIFFIN:
These athletes, I mean ...
MCCARON:
The way he acted in "Seabiscuit," he has
nothing to worry about his future.
KING:
I want to ask about "Seabiscuit." You've
been such a success in every facet of the business
world. Most people who own race horses lose money.
GRIFFIN:
Thank you.
KING:
And you must have lost money.
GRIFFIN:
Oh, sure.
KING:
Why do you love it so much?
GRIFFIN:
Because I love horses. Trainers love horses, jockeys
love them. Sometimes I'm sure they get pretty mad
at them. But the way they're cared for, I mean, I
live with 50 horses.
KING:
So it's a labor of love.
GRIFFIN:
Oh, absolutely.
KING:
You don't go into this to make money.
GRIFFIN:
And you see how they're treated by trainers. I mean,
the post race is probably the most interesting where
the trainers, they get al! l their information from
the jockey after the race. They say what went well,
what didn't go well, and that's how they find out.
But post race, how they're watched for at least a
couple of days to see how they come -- the horse comes
down after the race, because you've got 2,000 pounds
-- is that the average ...
MCCARON:
About a thousand, about 1,100 pounds.
GRIFFIN:
Eleven hundred pounds on little ballerina legs running
around at full -- I mean, it's a full effort.
KING:
Every time I watch, I don't know how you guys do it.
GRIFFIN:
I don't either. Nobody knows, nobody knows.
MCCARON:
It takes a lot of coordination, balance, and strength.
You know, most jockeys are very gifted athletes. They
can do a lot of different things very well.
KING:
Got to have some brains, too, right?
MCCARON:
Yeah.
KING:
You make a lot of decisions in the course of a race.
MCCARON:
Oh, without question. The longer the race, too, the
more diffic! ult it becomes cerebrally. You know,
you have to figure out a strategy ahead of time, but
you also have to have very fast reflexes. You've got
to be very quick on the draw, because a horse can
stumble leaving the gate, and you got plan A. All
of a sudden, because of the break or the bad break,
you have to go to plan B, and you've got to be able
to adjust very quickly.
KING:
Got to know the other horses in the race.
STEVENS:
Yeah, most definitely. The other horses and the other
jockeys. Chris knew all of my tendencies. I knew all
of his tendencies when he was riding, and it's ...
MCCARON:
He thinks he did.
(LAUGHTER)
GRIFFIN:
Couple of surprises.
STEVENS:
Absolutely. I mean, when I'm hired to ride a race,
I'm working for the owner in a sense. And if I'm interfered
with during the running of a race, it's my job to
go ahead and claim foul if I think that I was really
bothered.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN:
He rode my best horse. Moulange (ph).
STEVENS:
Yeah.
GRIFFIN:
Brought her in, and she won like mad. You told me
after it was the best ride -- the most comfortable
ride you've had ...
STEVENS:
Yeah.
GRIFFIN:
... since Winning Colors.
STEVENS:
Yeah, it's amazing. When you're in tune with one,
you know -- Chris was talking about the reaction time
and everything, but everything slows down. It's all
in slow motion.
KING:
Really?
STEVENS:
Yeah.
KING:
You're in your own world.
STEVENS:
Six seconds can seem like an eternity. And it's like
hearing a Major League baseball player saying that
he can see the rotation of the ball. You see everything
in slow motion.
KING:
Gretzky told me sometimes he's seen the puck go in
the net before it goes in the net.
MCCARON:
Yeah.
KING:
What's Santa Anita's plan for the big day?
MCCARON:
One little correction. It's not next Saturday, it's
October 25.
KING:
Yeah, but we're taping this! , and it is next Saturday,
because it's going to play October ...
GRIFFIN:
You just blew the whole thing.
KING:
It's OK, no you didn't. It's still next Saturday.
We tape this a week earlier, folks. GRIFFIN: You can't
be perfect.
MCCARON:
Duh!
(CROSSTALK)
KING:
He's the general manager. He was smart before he was
the general manager. Now he's the general manager.
GRIFFIN:
But at how long these guys go in their sport.
KING:
LaFite, 55, 60.
MCCARON:
Yeah, LaFite's 56 years old and just had to retire
this year, yeah.
KING:
LaFite may be the greatest athlete of the 20th century.
I'd make a case for that.
STEVENS:
I would not argue with that. He lives close to me.
I live up in the mountains, and I saw him yesterday
walking, had his shirt off, and, I mean, what a specimen.
And it looked like he hadn't missed a day of riding.
Chris will tell you when you see him, he's an unbelievable
athlete, and I know he is missing raci! ng terribly.
It's been a big part of his life forever.
MCCARON:
Two percent body fat.
KING:
Two percent body fat.
MCCARON:
Two percent body fat on LaFite. Think of it.
GRIFFIN:
Do you keep track of all your winnings? Do you know
how much you've won over your career?
MCCARON:
My wife does.
STEVENS:
Sure, he does.
GRIFFIN:
Do you know, Gary, so far?
STEVENS:
I have a pretty good idea.
KING:
You're in the range of what, purses?
STEVENS:
Right around 200 million. He's over 200 million.
MCCARON:
I retired with 264, yeah.
GRIFFIN:
See, you do know.
KING:
We'll be right back with Chris McCaron, Gary Stevens.
Next week is Breeder's Cup day at Santa Anita. We'll
talk about what Santa Anita's going to do and a little
about "Seabiscuit," which could be the Academy
Award winning movie of the year. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL
BREAK)
(BEGIN
VIDEO CLIP)
STEVENS:
Most of us having b! een riding together for 15, 16
years. To get the opportunity to play this part has
been really special for me.
KATHLEEN
KENNEDY, PRODUCER, SEABISCUIT: The casting of Gary
Stevens was probably the most spontaneously correct
bit of casting I've ever experienced.
UNIDENTIFIED
MALE: Anybody who's that accomplished as an athlete
has a certain fire and competitiveness in them.
(END
VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN
FILM CLIP, "SEABISCUIT")
STEVENS:
Kind of small, isn't he?
TOBEY
MAGUIRE, ACTOR: Going to look a lot smaller in a second,
Georgie.
(END
FILM CLIP)
KING:
We're back with three of my favorite people: old friend,
Merv Griffin, and two of the greatest athletes ever,
Chris McCaron and Gary Stevens.
What's
Santa Anita planned?
MCCARON:
Big day, Breeder's Cup, the year-end championship.
We've got 12 races all together on the card. First
race runs at 9:40 in the morning. That's because we've
got five hours of live television o! n NBC starting
at 10:00.
KING:
Bob Costas hosts it.
MCCARON:
Yeah. And then the Breeder's Cup consists of eight
races totaling $14 million in purses.
KING:
And people bet all over the country.
MCCARON:
All over the world.
KING:
That's right. With a compute, TV.
GRIFFIN:
I do that, watch it on computers, TV.
KING:
They bet in Dubuy (ph). You've both ridden in Dubuy,
haven't you?
STEVENS:
That's right, I have.
KING:
They bet in France. This is the biggest betting day
in the sport. MCCARON: It should be. I'm sure it is.
GRIFFIN:
It better be.
KING:
Are you nervous as general manager ...
MCCARON:
Yes.
KING:
... that the day goes right?
MCCARON:
A lot more nervous. I'll be a lot more nervous on
that day than I would be if I was riding.
KING:
The almost guarantee, Gary, is the weather will be
good.
STEVENS:
Yeah, in Southern California. That's one of the nice
things of having! it here. You know, we're almost
guaranteed spectacular weather. We've had it in Canada,
we've had it in Chicago, and we've actually been very,
very lucky with some of the places we've held the
Breeder's Cup. And we got away with some good weather.
KING:
New York, Miami.
STEVENS:
Yeah, you bet.
KING:
All right, what's it like -- Merv knows show business.
Well, how do you like being a star, Gary?
STEVENS:
I actually -- I really enjoyed it, Larry. It's the
first thing that I've done outside of horse racing
that gives me the same feeling of satisfaction at
the end of the day that I get with riding a big winner.
KING:
You like being someone else?
STEVENS:
Yeah. I mean, it was challenging, very challenging.
And whenever I would see the smile on Gary Ross, the
director, on his face after we hit a scene, you knew
when you hit a scene. It's like watching the smile
on an owner's face when you walk into the winner's
circle, just a good feeling.
!
KING: What did you think of the movie, Merv?
GRIFFIN:
Fabulous, oh, my.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN:
I cry at the titles when it starts, you know. Same
with Far Lap (ph), all those great movies.
MCCARON:
Interesting thing about this guy, Gary Ross met him.
KING:
Director.
MCCARON:
Yeah, the director and wrote the screenplay as well.
And had a conversation with Gary Stevens for five
minutes. I introduced them in the jock's room at Santa
Anita. He walks away and he says to me, "That's
my George Woolf." This before he finished writing
the screenplay. I said, "What are you talking
about?" He knew then. He goes, "This guy's
going to play George Woolf."
KING:
You're a natural. You're going to do more movies?
STEVENS:
Yeah, hopefully so. We're working on some things right
now. I'm very excited about it, just the possibility.
I mean, to get a new opportunity at age 40, yeah,
absolutely, I'll go after it.
KING:
If you've seen "Seabis! cuit," and I imagine
you haven't, you must see it. It's going to win awards
and the like.
You
told me before we went on that the star of that movie,
rode a horse only in the post parade, only in a panic
(ph), but in a race, never was on a horse.
MCCARON:
It's way too dangerous for that. There are 35 accidents
...
(CROSSTALK)
KING:
So he was on a mechanical horse?
MCCARON:
That's right, yeah.
GRIFFIN:
And you choreographed the horses?
MCCARON:
That's right.
GRIFFIN:
Did you put a camera -- somebody said you put a camera
on the rear end of the horse.
MCCARON:
There was one camera underneath the girth, attached
to the girth underneath shooting between the horse's
front legs. Yeah, we had helmet cameras, we had cameras
everywhere.
KING:
Cars, trucks driving around with cameras on them.
MCCARON:
Right, within just a matter of feet of the horses
at 40 miles an hour.
STEVENS:
I mean, not only for Toby. Th! ey were using a stunt
rider for myself in some of the scenes. Here I am
a professional jockey, but, you know, if something
happens halfway through it ...
GRIFFIN:
Did anyone get hurt?
STEVENS:
No.
MCCARON:
Not a one. It was incredible.
KING:
Were you surprised watching the finished film?
STEVENS:
Very, very pleased.
KING:
What did you think of the racing scenes?
STEVENS:
I thought it was doing to be impossible. I did not
want to be a part of it, to be honest with you, when
it started. When I found out Chris was involved, I
found out the passion that Gary Ross, Kathleen Kennedy,
and Frank Marshall had for horse racing and what they
wanted to do with this, I thought it was a slam dunk
if they could pull it off, and they pulled it off.
GRIFFIN:
I can make a statement here that none of these guys
can make. I saw Seabiscuit ride.
MCCARON:
Wow, did you really?
KING:
Really.
MCCARON:
You're not that old, are you?
GRIFFIN:
Pardon?
MCCARON:
Huh?
GRIFFIN:
Larry told me to say that. Yeah, sure.
(CROSSTALK)
KING:
Seabiscuit rode over 50 times, I think.
MCCARON:
Ran, yeah.
GRIFFIN:
See, that doesn't happen anymore. When a horse becomes
a big hit, then the owner says, "Well, I'll syndicate
him and give him a nice life," and he goes, you
know, and impregnate mares for the rest of his life.
KING:
Brilliantly conceived movie.
GRIFFIN:
I don't know if that's great for racing, though.
MCCARON:
What is?
GRIFFIN:
When they win a couple of races.
MCCARON:
Oh, not it's not good for racing. It's hard to get
a story going, you know.
GRIFFIN:
Is the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) story true?
MCCARON:
I think so. I'm not a hundred percent sure.
KING:
What story?
GRIFFIN:
Is it, Gary, the (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN:
They sold him to Japan, and he was ... (CROSSTALK)
STEV!
ENS: He didn't make it as a stallion, yeah.
GRIFFIN:
And they sold him to -- Japan sold him to a meat company.
KING:
Do you ever get attached to your horses?
STEVENS:
Absolutely.
KING:
You do.
STEVENS:
One of the reasons I'm back right now riding after
the terrible spill I had was the attachment I have
to the horse that did this to me. A lot of people
thought that, you know, the accident was caused by
a horse that's trying to hurt the jockey, and this
horse -- I mean, if he was a pet, if he was a dog,
I would take him home and put him in my backyard.
The accident was a one-off type of thing, but, yeah,
I'm very attached to this particular horse.
KING:
Horses know you?
MCCARON:
Yeah, horses recognize certain people, absolutely,
sure. You spend enough time around them, they may
not know you after the first or second time you meet
them, but you definitely develop a relationship with
the horse.
KING:
Someone said ...
GRIFFI!
N: Who was the greatest horse you ever rode?
MCCARON:
I think the most talented was probably Ally Sheba
(ph).
GRIFFIN:
Ally Sheba.
KING:
And yours?
STEVENS:
Well, up until about a month ago, it was Point Given,
and I had the good fortune to ride a horse that a
student Jenny Craig owns right now named Candy Ride
that -- he's right on par with Point Given.
(CROSSTALK)
KING:
There isn't a horse named Larry King that hasn't won
yet.
GRIFFIN:
That's right.
KING:
Candy Ride -- well, he's not going to run the Breeder's
Cup?
STEVENS:
No. I think they're doing the right thing. He's been
in training for three years. Ron Mackinow (ph), a
hall fame trainer, is doing the right thing. He suggested
to the Craigs that they give him a little rest and
... (CROSSTALK)
KING:
What's it like to sit on a horse like that?
GRIFFIN:
From Argentina.
STEVENS:
It's -- well, they don't know where they're from,
and I don't speak! their language.
(CROSSTALK)
KING:
What's it like to sit when they're super?
STEVENS:
When -- it's the most invincible feeling that you
can have traveling down the backside and knowing that
you've got a target in front of you maybe two or three
other horses, and you know that you can run by them
at any point that you run by them. It's a spectacular
feeling.
KING:
You guys are terrific. I can't wait to get out there.
Merv, I'll be at your party.
GRIFFIN:
Yes, you will.
KING:
It's the big party in advance of this. Chris, best
of luck to you in all you do.
MCCARON:
Larry, thanks. Thank you very much.
KING:
Gary, an honor having you on this show.
Merv,
as always.
GRIFFIN:
You keep wearing that tie.
KING:
Merv Griffin, Chris McCaron, Gary Stevens. The Breeder's
Cup is next week. Merv is here, so is Chris, so is
Gary. They'll be back. Merv, we're not sure. We'll
be back with more of LARRY KING LIVE right after this.
